Gen. Aleu Ayieny Aleu is a veteran of the Sudan People’s Liberation Movement/Army (SPLM/A) liberation struggle, which ended with the signing of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA) in 2005. After the war, he briefly served as a deputy interior minister in Khartoum during the six-year interim period. He was later elected to the Southern Sudan Parliament to represent Warrap State’s Gogrial West County and headed the House’s Public Security Committee until he was appointed South Sudan’s Interior Minister in July 2013. His most recent position was governor of the restive Warrap State.
During an exclusive interview with Radio Tamazuj, Gen. Ayieny contends that if the country’s leaders think properly to correct the mistakes made, and unite people, South Sudan can be shaped into a worthwhile state. He, however, argues that for this to happen, public funds must be used for the public good and not for personal use.
He also reasons that for the country to develop, there rule of law of order, and justice, because this will eliminate corruption and kill tribalism and clannism.
Below are edited excerpts:
Q: As we celebrate 14 years of independence, what are your reflections on the liberation struggle and the post-independence era?
A: That is a very important question because liberation is one thing, and developing a country is another thing. We fought a lot, and it did not start with us as the SPLM/A. We fought the whole world, by the way, we fought with the Turks, the Egyptians, Northern Sudan, the British, and we achieved what we wanted.
Q: What has South Sudan achieved since its independence?
A: To shift from fighting to expectations is not an easy thing, it is a very difficult thing, and every country has passed through such a thing, and I am optimistic. This country will be great soon, as this generation of fighters begins to prepare for how best we can hand over to the next generation. It is not happening, and that is what we should have been planning all along.
We need to build a state, and from there we will build a nation. It is a state that builds a nation. If we do not have proper state authority starting from a good army that is ready to protect the borders, because sovereignty is borders, if there is no body protecting those borders, then you are not sovereign. So, we need to have a good army. We should invest in a very small, well-equipped army that is ready to protect us from any encroachments. Our country is being taken slowly, and already, the Ugandans, Kenyans, and even Ethiopians, everybody is getting a small piece now, simply because we do not have a good army.
Once you have an army, then you have law enforcement. Law enforcement is about good police with laws. And then, good prosecutors, a good ministry of justice with good prosecutors, and then you come to courts, a good Judiciary. Finally, you need good prisons where culprits go in and never come out until the law says they are released, and they come back as good citizens. We have not prepared.
After law enforcement, you must have a good parliament generating laws to be implemented by law enforcement. Once you have a parliament generating laws, and you have an executive part of law enforcement doing their job, and you have an army that is protecting the nation’s borders, then you have built a state. That is the meaning of a state. Once there is justice, then there is no corruption, and it is this that kills tribalism and clannism because they die away when there is a rule of law. So, the rule of law must exist for you to be a good state.
Once you have a good state, what prevents you from development? That is when we will implement what John Garang has been telling us: “Taking towns to the people.” What was meant by taking towns to the people was development that starts at the grassroots level, going upwards. The money must go down to payams. When you have a good boma, then you have a good payam; when you have a good payam, then you have a good county. You build it from there, and the county will make the best state, and it is the state that will make a good country. It is not from Juba downwards because you will never go to the villages from Juba. This is where you identify your resources.
We are lucky that we have the oil, but what are we doing with the oil? The oil should have been used for building good state institutions. Once you have good state institutions, then there is justice. When there is justice, go down to the people and encourage them. What is our best resource we have? It is not about oil because it is not a resource. It is the human being who is the best resource; it is the youth who are the resource we have. Once you deal with the youth and train them, they are the ones who will make use of the money we have, the resources we have. It is them who will implement programmes. There are countries like Rwanda, besides bananas, what do they have? But they did it. It is all about youth. But we have oil. But because we did not invest in our youth, they are killing themselves. Brother, we have no future.
Q: Why have we failed to develop our youth?
A: When we were in the bush, we could not finish the Red Army [youth] programme. And I read to them what they can do when we get old or when we die, but now there is a generation that came behind them. These are the generations you call the White Army now. You call them Gelweng, and these are young people who are neglected, and they have just decided to take up arms, and you call it community violence, but it is a generational problem.
Then there are what you call niggers [gangs in South Sudan parlance] who are now involved in raping everywhere because we did not take care of that generation, and this is the wealth we are misusing. They will end up killing us in the end. What next? There are the ‘crews’ who ride on motorbikes and snatch bags and other things from women, and these are all just the same generation. So, this is a serious problem because we are not investing in the youth. It is not the youth who have been in the bush. When I say something now, some people make noise, saying they are young. What young? The youth are the ones we have now, these small kids, what are we doing about them? There are some lucky ones, but nobody is taking care of the majority, and they are a danger to us. However, we can change them if we stop embezzling what we have now and put it on the youth and train them to be carpenters, plumbers, mechanics, etc.
Q: Despite 14 years of self-rule, South Sudan still faces major challenges in areas of economic stability, social division, insecurity, and slow development, some of which you have already mentioned. As a veteran leader, how do you assess the progress made so far, and where do you believe the country has fallen short?
A: Rome was not built in one day, but if we think properly, such that we can correct the mistakes we made, and then unite people and build a good state, it is not very difficult. It is just a matter of saying this money must go for this, let us release all this money to something good, something that is not personal. Public money must go to the public. That is what I can tell you.
Q: What responsibility do you think the older generation has in mentoring the youth, and what role do you think the youth can play in accelerating development?
A: The youth are scaring us with their agendas, so we will stick to power. Do you understand what I am saying? There has to be an understanding, because at my age now, and I have my children now getting even older, there has to be this generational thinking of who is who and who must come after this and who must come after that. Kiir is a very old man now, and we are in a generation together. Is he [Kiir] sure who will come after him? Maybe somebody will come to revenge and do other things, because the way you people write in the mass media, then there is no future. The future is about generational harmony, handing over, and taking over.
Handing over, we can do it by death, somebody dies, then you are gone, or by agreement, then there is a situation, then please go home, retire with this package. Are you talking about packages for us? No! These are things we must discuss, and people have to talk.
Q: Before the last question, let’s dive into the areas of leadership accountability in the future. What institutional reform do you think should be prioritised right now to restore public trust in governance?
A: You already said it, accountability. We must be accountable. When there is no accountability, then it is too bad. When we think that we know there is somebody abusing certain things, and these are people we still think are leaders, and then there is no accountability. When there is accountability, then there is harmony. When there is harmony, then there is development. That’s it.
All civilised countries went through the same situation we are in. What only saves people is the rule of law; there must be a rule of law, and everybody must be accountable.
Q: On this 14th Independence Day anniversary, what is your message to the people of South Sudan, especially to those who are disillusioned by the slow pace of progress in the country?
A: Hope! Hope! Hope! It was through hope that we were able to liberate this country, and through hoping that we are going to do better things, and that we are going to be people who can develop this nation. There are very few things that are happening, but people do not see them. With all our corruption, there is development. Look at Juba, go around and see skyscrapers moving up, where do they get this money? We are moving, so it should not be that we revert to violence. No.
I am appealing to everybody who is carrying guns now, liberation is over. The kind of enemies you now think are your enemies are not your enemies. Whether you are in Equatoria or Greater Upper Nile, or Bahr el Ghazal, let us come back and unite and change the face of this country. We have a greater hope, and in a very short time, if we have peace among ourselves, we can develop better than our neighbours, we know. So, that is my message.
I don’t think I can carry guns now, again to fight, because we took the guns to fight the Arabs and Northern Sudanese, who did not understand us. Now, creating new Arabs among ourselves will not be a good idea, completely. We are all one people, we will work together, and we must all unite to defeat poverty, ignorance, and health issues. This is what we need. And hope will be the one that is going to do that. Let us hope for better.